Atheist Using Double Standard For Ascertaining Truth

Recently I have some interactions with an atheist.

Atheist

There is a magic leprechaun who created the universe. I have evidence for it, because I have a book which says so. The leprechaun says that you have to marry me, otherwise you will be tortured for eternity. So, for your own good, come over here and marry me. I don’t want you to be tortured forever! Really! You just have to have faith, then you know I’m telling the truth. So… See you soon?

Me

‘There is a magic leprechaun who created the universe.’

Is your magic leprechaun spaceless, timeless and immaterial? If not, then your magic leprechaun cannot be the creator of the universe for the following reason:

Logic dictates that a creator will always precede its creation. As universe primarily means its space, time, matter and energy, so a creator of the universe will naturally have to be prior to space, time, matter and energy. Thus the creator of the universe cannot be within any space and time and neither can he contain any matter and energy.

So a magic leprechaun who is not spaceless, timeless and immaterial fails to qualify himself as a probable candidate for the post of the creator of the universe.

Atheist

He comes from another universe and created this universe. It is all in the book. And it makes more sense than the Biblical God. If something (or someone) is spaceless, timeless and immaterial, it doesn’t exist. There is no space where that something exists, there was no time that it existed and there is no material where that something exists of. Ergo: Something cannot exist without space, time and / or matter.

Me

‘If something (or someone) is spaceless, timeless and immaterial, it doesn’t exist. There is no space where that something exists, there was no time that it existed and there is no material where that something exists of. Ergo: Something cannot exist without space, time and / or matter.’

The above quote shows that you have no idea about what it actually means to be spaceless and timeless. For you spaceless and timeless means to be in no space for no time and therefore something that is spaceless and timeless does not exist at all. But actually it does not mean that. Here is an example.

People generally misunderstand what it means to be outside space-time. Whatever exists within the universe exists within space-time. But what about the universe itself? Does it exist within some higher space-time? Is there any space-time beyond the universe? If there is no space-time beyond the universe, then universe as a whole does not exist within any space-time. In that case shall we say that the universe does not exist?

We know that the universe is expanding. Now if you ask any cosmologist this question that what it is expanding into, they will always reply that it is not expanding into anything, because the universe is not embedded into any higher space-time. Their answer is fully consistent with the big bang theory. Big bang theory says that space-time began along with the big bang only. That means big bang did not occur within any pre-existing space-time, because there was no space-time before the big bang. Therefore neither is the universe expanding within any pre-existing space-time.

So, here cosmologists are also saying the same thing that the universe as a whole is not within any space-time. Due to this reason shall we say that the universe does not exist?

Atheist

The universe does exist, because the universe IS space time and matter. As far as we know, there is nothing outside of our universe. So, it is indeed fully consistent with the Big bang theory. Outside the universe, there is no space and time, so outside our universe, there is no space or time where anything can exist, so, therefore, probably nothing exists without our universe.

Me

Everybody knows that universe is space, time and matter. But here the question is: within which space-time does the universe as a whole exist if there is no space-time outside the universe?

So your concept that spaceless and timeless means existing in no space for no time applies for the universe as well, because the universe as a whole is not within any space-time.

In whichever way you try to suppress this truth, you will fail.

Atheist

Ok then. So there is a council of gods existing without time, space and matter, spending no time doing nothing nowhere.

Anyway, they never showed any interest in me or my well being, so, I guess the god(s) have better things to do with their no time, and I will try to spend my time (because I have to deal with time because I am in the universe) as good as possible.

Oh, and in case you meet one or more gods, can you please tell them I’d really like to meet them? I am very curious how it is to live whitout space and time.

Me

Your last comment shows that either you are a dogmatic person, or your intelligence level is low, very low. So either you refuse to understand (due to your dogmatism), or you fail to understand (due to your low level of intelligence) that whatever may be the ultimate reality that ultimate reality can never be within any space and time.

Here the interaction ends.

Here the atheist is clearly using double standard for ascertaining truth; he is using one standard for God and another standard for the universe. For him existence means existing within some space-time. So for him God does not exist because God is not within any space and time. But for him the universe exists, although as per the cosmologists neither is the universe within any space-time, because it is not expanding into anything. So as per his own standard he should also say that the universe does not exist. But he does not say so.

So his using double standard for ascertaining truth is quite apparent.